In July 1794 Goethe and Schiller left a meeting of the natural science society in Jena together. Goethe explained his idea of the Urpflanze, the original plant. Schiller answered: Das ist keine Erfahrung, das ist eine Idee. That is not an experience, that is an idea. Goethe replied that he could only be glad to have ideas without knowing it. Goethe later described the argument: so ward viel gekämpft und dann Stillstand gemacht … keiner von beiden konnte sich für den Sieger halten. There was much fighting and then a pause, and neither could consider himself the winner. From that conversation grew one of the best-known friendships in German literature. It lasted until Schiller’s death.